Last week’s DICE 2025 conference hosted by the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences kicked off with something of a rarity: a public fireside conversation between two high-profile Sony creative directors Neil Druckmann and Cory Barlog, respectively of Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica. Sony’s often keen to be careful of high-profile conversations like this, and the pair had a rare opportunity to speak frankly about the highs and lows of creative leadership.
(Sony was probably happier with how this conversation went compared to his previous public conversation with another PlayStation employee…)
Druckmann (who is also studio president at Naughty Dog, and executive produced the HBO series The Last of Us based on the video game of the same name), shared one anecdote that stood out in a conversation about grappling with self-doubt and “putting faith in the process.” As he and Barlog mused about why they stay in game development despite the stress, Druckmann indicated he’s been thinking about the need for studio leaders to move up the ladder to create space for the next generation.
He recalled a conversation with Naughty Dog co-founder Jason Rubin where the former studio boss expanded on his decision to leave the company. “He said to me ‘I’m leaving Naughty Dog, and that will create a space for everybody who’s going to rise up,'” Druckmann recalled. Rubin had pointed to the ascension as Evan Wells (former Naughty Dog president and co-president) as something that could only happen if he moved on.
Druckmann said that encounter has shaped his thinking lately as work progresses on Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet, the company’s first new series since the debut of The Last of Us in 2013. “I think about those opportunities…eventually when I am done with this, it will create a bunch of opportunities for people. I’m slowly just rising up, getting less-involved on the day-to-day stuff on this project.”
“Eventually I’ll just be able to remove myself—I don’t know how long that will take, but I think about it, and I think about all these great opportunities for people to take on their stress, their ideas, be vulnerable, and do all those things that I had to do.”
Druckmann and Barlog aren’t headed for the exit yet
If you are a Naughty Dog developer thinking of waging a Game of Thrones-style power battle for Druckmann’s vacated seat, best hold your dragons horses. He and Barlog don’t plan to leave their respective roles any time soon.
Despite the pressure and anxiety (which the two spent much of their conversation reflecting on), each of them offered reasons for why they still want to make games when they wake up in the morning. “These days, I think what helps me get more perspective are my kids,” he said. “I’m sitting there with my son, watching Stranger Things, and he leans in to me, and it’s like ‘this is all I need, I don’t need much more than this.'”
“But then that compulsion kicks in,” he added—though “the end” of his career still seems to rattle around his head.
That question might be plaguing Druckmann because as he noted earlier in the conversation, he’s regularly asked by people around him if he’s going to transition to TV or movies. His answer to them is “no, probably not” (then after Barlog teased him for his extensive work on The Last of Us show, he relented and said “I dabble”).
“There’s something so brilliant to me about games. There are way more unknowns, way more risks.” He recalled a relevant exchange with The Last of Us lead actor Pedro Pascal, where the actor (possibly frustrated by Druckman’s direction) “jokingly” asked “hey, do you like art?”
“Yeah, do you like art?” Druckmann recalled firing back. Pascal then apparently waxed poetic on the subject. “It’s the reason I wake up in the morning,” the leading man said. “It’s why I live and breathe.”
You might recall that Pascal was part of the 2023 actor’s strike led by SAG-AFTRA, during which union leadership repeatedly spotlighted the need to preserve opportunities for the next generation of on-screen talent. It would seem in games and film, “living and breathing” art isn’t just about motivation and making great work, it’s about thinking deliberately about where the craft will be when you move on.